archive Wahoo RIVAL Review – vs Garmin 945 – ELEMNT GPS Triathlon Watch

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Wahoo Bolt transition feature with rival Review - 2021's new ELEMNT, V2 buyers

Wahoo RIVAL Review | GPS ELEMNT TRIATHLON

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An alternative review of the Wahoo RIVAL – your next GPS triathlon watch? Certainly, one you’ll see more of in 2021.

✔️ Novel & useful pro features

✔️ Easy novice setup

At rrp$379/£349 it compares very favourably to the Garmin 745 at rrp$499 and the Polar Vantage V2 at $499.95. You’ve probably wondered why some of the other reviews miss the importance of the novel sport-focussed features that Wahoo has introduced here for the proper triathletes. They’ve also missed out on the true simplicity of the whole setup which will appeal to those starting out in triathlon. Sure, there are gaps but Wahoo has been working on filling those for a while already.

Answer: some reviewers don’t understand the target market for the RIVAL nor do they understand the needs of triathlon for different triathletes.

 

buy Wahoo Elemnt RIVAL review specifications

 

Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL – An Explainer

The Wahoo Rival is a mid-sized GPS triathlon watch, the same ‘normal’ size as the Vantage V2 and FR945. I’d say it’s better made than the 945 but not as polished as the V2’s hardware package.

The RIVAL is ever-so-slightly chunky-looking and a little like a Garmin Fenix in that sense. Yet, at the same time, it’s still lightweight at 53g. Even better, with a featherweight ceramic bezel and gorilla-glass then we are looking at a properly durable piece of kit. It shares the same type of 5-button interface with the more serious competitor watches, add to that a normal (dull) colour screen, and a 24-hour GPS battery-life and you should be good for an Ironman.

The function of the Wahoo RIVAL’s buttons and how they interact with the menus are different from every sports watch that has come before.

I remember my first Wahoo ELEMNT bike computer and it was tricky to internalise the logic behind it all. Eventually, Wahoo’s bike computers DO make perfect intuitive sense and then save you time. I’m hoping that the RIVAL will have me feeling the same way too. I’m not quite there yet.

One thing that stands out when using the RIVAL is its responsiveness. If you press ‘STOP’ it stops immediately, if you change a data field or watch face on the app it syncs immediately to the RIVAL. #ProperlyPowered.

Now I’m going to go into a few more details and the overriding theme is that Wahoo majors on sport-focussed features with only the rare token nod to peripheral smart features such as notifications. Like the Polar Vantage V2, the RIVAL is not pretending to be a smartwatch. I like that.

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Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL – Its place in the Wahoo ecosystem

Wahoo has an advantage over almost all of the competition. It already has an awesome ecosystem to fit things into. Wahoo’s smartphone app focusses on device maintenance tasks, workouts and a modest training log. All the complex stuff like planning routes, advanced analytics and structured workouts are facilitated with 3rd party providers via Wahoo’s open architecture…with even more openness to come!

That said, Wahoo has put more emphasis on integrating the RIVAL with its other products – TICKR, KICKR and the other ELEMNTs. That is where RIVAL’s strengths lie today ie the “Wahoo Package”, and that’s one reason why you might buy the Rival. Take a look at the inclusions and omissions from the Wahoo Fitness ecosystem and see what you think:

  • Sensors & Sensor connectivity – We have BLE and ANT+ (FE-C) connectivity to power meters, chest straps or running dynamics and indoor smart trainers. #Cool
  • Workout export – yes to STRAVA, dropbox and others. #Cool
  • Structured workout import/execution (TP) – No, it’s coming #Hmmm
  • Route import – No #Hmmm
  • Other – links to ELEMNT/BOLT/ROAM during triathlon & generic broadcasting of oHR (just oHR). #Cool

Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL – Other Cool Stuff

Wahoo has introduced an auto-transition feature that switches sports during a triathlon if you forget to press the button. Rival uses its onboard sensors and connectivity to external sensors to determine the start/end of one of the legs. Garmin, sort of, did this first in early 2019 with Swimrun, so it’s nice that other brands have taken a useful feature further forwards.

Even cooler is the auto-handoff which allows you to use your bike’s ELEMNT as a ‘dumb’ display for the Rival, here’s how that works:

On race day as you head off to the start line, you leave your bike‘s ELEMNT in MULTISPORT mode. Then, later, once you enter T1 in the race your bike’s ELEMENT head unit will wake up and pair to the RIVAL and start showing your live race data on the big screen. You also get to see these extras piped over to the bike’s ELEMNT:

  • Swim stats
  • T1 stats
  • total race-time stats
  • Map + Route (from bike’s routing)
  • Strava Live Segments
  • BestBikeSplit.

Now, because the bike-ELEMNT doesn’t record the workout you won’t accidentally get duplicates of the bike leg created by each device to ruin your precious stats. Cool !

One of the failings of most new triathlon watches is that they fail to let you make a custom multisport profile. You know, like for that brick workout you ‘only’ do once a week. Things as unimportant as that! 🙂 Thankfully Wahoo avoided that trap and there are duathlon, (short-)brick and other profiles, although I’m not sure how to create a pool-triathlon profile or a repeating profile (Otillo) other than by manually switching from one sport to the next. (Edit: custom multisport profiles have been significantly improved and updated in Dec 2020)

After the race, or after a swim workout, the Wahoo app allows you to edit various aspects of the workout such as your race split durations and pool length. This sounds relatively trivial but quite a lot of people want the ability to get their workout data ‘just right’ and this helps. Even better you can set the Wahoo app to delay uploading multisport workouts just so you can check that you have all the transition points correct.

One of the novel concepts on the original ELEMNT was the ability to drill up or drill down through the selected metrics on any page. This is also implemented on the RIVAL and you simultaneously press the bottom two buttons to show more or fewer metrics OR to drill down through time-series charts to higher levels of granularity. I like this feature but I don’t think it works as well on the wrist when running as on a bike device. The data fields are cleverly unusual in zoom mode…you can get two metrics in one ‘box’ and, via an app setting, you can hide the units of measure on the watch screen to create more space – if you always have the same data fields why show the units when you know what they are?! #Cool

The Wahoo app already has the ability to natively and automatically export FIT files to dropbox. You don’t know how happy it makes me that the RIVAL also allows this 🙂 There is a good chance that I will end up using the RIVAL as my primary device going forwards and, if I do, THE DROPBOX FEATURE will be the main reason. You can also attach RIVAL to a computer as a USB drive.

Wahoo RIVAL Review – Bike Features

The RIVAL has a pre-loaded KICKR sport profile. As the name suggests, if you have an indoor KICKR trainer then you can use the RIVAL to control it. Currently, this is via manual control and I would expect Wahoo to quickly introduce support for following structured workouts and for following previous FIT-based workouts.

Venturing outdoors, the RIVAL supports LIVETRACK via your smartphone.

The rest of the bike spec is as you would expect with support for PMs and SPD/CAD sensors with the usual data suspects covering HR, POWER, ELEVATION, ZONES and ALERTS.

Swim Features

With oHR, custom pool lengths and GPS distance in OWS, what’s not to like? Those 3 features tell you this should be a competent swim offering. Because of the CV-19 situation, my testing for this part of the Wahoo Rival Review is incomplete.

There are also the usual stroke, distance and many other swim-related metrics like HR on offer. More intriguingly, there are novel, pool-based functionalities covering REPEATS, SETS, IDLE TIMES, REPEAT-ON and SWOLF (set). The ability to zoom into the data metrics in pool mode also looks very promising and MIGHT work well in action.

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Run Features

The Wahoo RIVAL comes ready-for-action either on a treadmill or outdoors. Both those sports profiles support running dynamics (VO/GCT/STRIDE-LENGTH) which, in turn, come from your Wahoo TICKR-X strap (not  Garmin HRM-PRO), whereas cadence and indoor pace come from the wrist. I really would like to see support added for NPE RUNN‘s treadmill sensor and STRYD’s footpod pace. NB: Running power IS displayed, recorded and visible in the laps on the app (yep).

Interesting bonus features are LIVETRACK (via smartphone) and grade-adjusted pace.

 

Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL – Smart Features

Call notifications, steps and other basics are here alongside a watch-only battery mode of 2 weeks.

It’s a basic smartwatch by today’s standards.

Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL – Alongside your Apple Watch 6 (AW6)

In a way, a two watch setup gives you the best of both worlds. Unrivalled smartwatch features from AW6 that no Garmin will come close to matching and then a dedicated triathlon/running watch that you just wear for your sports and which needs charging up less than once a week.

Just link your Wahoo RIVAL into Apple Health. #Sorted

Note: In the ELEMNT app (My 24/7 Data>Share to Health>authorize)

Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL – Accuracy

The accuracy of both GPS and oHR needs improving, especially the latter. Consequently, I will revisit the accuracy in more detail later in 2021. I used a chest strap and was happy enough with the post-workout GPS track that was produced.

Update: 26 Jan 2021. I have many tens of hours of usage now with the RIVAL and my initial view has not especially changed ie a) you need a HRM and b) the GPS is fine for a pretty track of your workout but less so for instant pace, although lap pace is not too shabby ie #Normal. Wahoo NEEDS to get footpod support for pace and distance implemented ASAP…currently I am relying mostly on running power for pacing by effort – that feature IS live.

Update: 2 April 2021. Firmware update offers better GPS performance.

Update: 25 May 2021: Firmware update offers improved HR performance

Here are some results from the firmware which claims to have improved GNSS performance.

In a nutshell: GPS+GLONASS performance is close to that of a top-end Garmin triathlon watch. But not quite as good.

Here is the methodology for my standard GPS test and the images below are from that test with the Wahoo in GREEN. I do MANY other workouts as well in order to come to a brief conclusion for you. The RIVAL scored 67%, which isn’t great but its score suffered because of some unusual behaviour (which Wahoo will rectify eventually via firmware) and other cases where the GPS track was parallel (but close) to the correct route. If you only quickly glance at your route after your workout then you just won’t notice these things. In my other tests there are numerous good examples of correct positioning, perhaps more importantly is the RUNNING PACE that is reported live to the watch and that is pretty much exactly on par with Garmin. The WAHOO scores well when determining the distances of workouts and it flags up an autolap as well as any other device.

 

Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL – Specifications, Resources

A quick review of the Wahoo Rival’s specification shows good but typical hardware specs and we can further assume that Sony’s GNSS chip is used. I’m not sure about the oHRM. There is nothing unusual or especially noteworthy in the specs:

  • Dimensions 46.5 x 46.5 x 15.3 mm
  • Display Size 1.2 in (30.4 mm) diameter
  • Display Type Color
  • Display Resolution 240 x 240
  • Lens Material Gorilla Glass
  • Bezel Material Ceramic
  • Case Material Nylon Polymer
  • Strap Material Silicone
  • Strap Length 10 in (25.4 cm)
  • Fits wrist circumference 140 mm – 240 mm
  • Weight 53 g
  • Battery Rechargeable Lithium-Ion
  • Battery Life Smartwatch Mode: 14 days
  • GPS or HR Mode: Up to 24 hours
  • GPS Functionality Built-in
  • Supported Satellites GPS and GLONASS
  • Water Rating 5 ATM (water-resistant up to 50 meters)
  • Perfect View Zoom Buttons
  • Ambient Light Sensor

WORKOUT ANALYSIS FEATURES

  • HR Zones
  • HR Calories
  • HR Broadcast
  • GPS Speed & Distance
  • Customizable Data Pages
  • Customizable Activity Profiles
  • Auto Pause
  • Auto Lap
  • Manual Lap
  • Audio Prompts
  • Finish Time
  • Auto Multisport Activities
  • Manual Multisport Activities
  • Button Lock
  • Activity History on Watch

SENSORS

  • Altimeter – Yes
  • Compass – Yes, GPS based (non-magnetic)
  • Gyroscope – No
  • Accelerometer – Yes
  • Thermometer – No
  • WiFi – No

Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL MANUAL

Here is a link to the manual

 

Wahoo Rival Review

 

Wahoo ELEMNT Rival – Firmware Updates

As of June 2021, it is now clear that Wahoo is progressively adding to the competencies of the Rival with some major enhancements. There have been many additions to the RIVAL since launch and here are the important ones

  • This update added the ability to broadcast running pace and cadence plus introduced some new app notification sources.
  • This update added the ability to include a custom multisport profile.
  • This update added the initially limited ability to complete track workouts where the GPS track AND YOUR PERFORMANCE STATS snap to the correct dimension of a correct oval with full-correct 100m segments.
  • This significant update adds structured workout support of workouts synced from Training Peaks

 

  • iOS MUSIC CONTROL – introduces the ability to control music from the RIVAL. Play, skip, pause, and adjust the volume.
  • PLANNED WORKOUTS – from TrainingPeaks and also include 12 key Wahoo workouts. Sync up to a week of swim, bike, run workouts
  • KICKR HEADWIND – control the KICKR HEADWIND smart fan by: heart rate response, speed simulation, and low-med-hi settings.
  • SMART NOTIFICATIONS (iOS) – smart notifications from WhatsApp, Signal & Telegram alongside calls, texts & emails
  • BROADCAST OPTICAL HEART RATE -over ANT+
  • PACE CHART View the pace of all your previous splits in an easy-to-see chart format

Wahoo ELEMNT Rival – Futures

Briefly, the existing Rival hardware can never have maps, contactless payments or music added. It will stay as a ‘proper’ multisport watch. Some may argue that the omission of maps is a big one but I disagree. Perhaps simple breadcrumb routes are appropriate for the Rival and my understanding is that they are not planned either, although the hardware might allow that.

Structured workout support IS planned  (now delivered) and it’s safe to say it will include KICKR control and links to Sufferfest! (SUF, owned by Wahoo)

Tidying up the multisport profiles has already happened. Other reviews seem to have missed the existing template profiles like duathlon, to be fair though, I couldn’t create a RBRBRBRBR type profile or a pool swim triathlon. Whilst these are peripheral features for many athletes I would say they are KEY features for a tri watch to be considered as a ‘proper’ tri watch. (Edit Wahoo adds further multisport features)

Alongside this, Wahoo is still beefing up its platform API, so this should open up the whole ecosystem to more new functionality into 2021, I’ll revisit this review of the Rival at that point.

Finally, I’m assuming that more watch faces will come and that the existing watchface widgets may also be expanded. However, that is only going to be meaningful if 3rd parties can start to plug logic into the watch and I’m not sure if that will happen (it might).

buy Wahoo Elemnt RIVAL review specifications

Wahoo ELEMNT Rival vs Garmin 945 / 945LTE

This choice is difficult and it is the exact choice that I had to make as a serious age group triathlete. I chose the Garmin 935…here’s why

Both watches offer great integration with their own brands’ ecosystems and adherence to standards which is important when your sports data need to flow seamlessly across multiple sports platforms. Similarly, both watches are great at working with all standard 3rd party sensors.

You can rest assured that all the essential triathlon features are very well covered by both watches.

To decide between the two depends on your approach to tech and training.

If you want the latest, greatest tech and every imaginable sports feature and smart feature then you will always pay the premium for a Garmin. You’ll then slightly bemoan the reliability and be continually frustrated that you can’t find anything in the 945’s menus. You will also be worried about the 945’s battery life which to me was somewhat unpredictable.

If you want the complexity moved from your watch to the app so that every single workout is not constrained by your tech then you’ll go for a Wahoo.

You might be intrigued by the physiology features of Garmin, which Wahoo lacks. However, you plan to use an optical HRM and that data WILL simply be wrong at times. Garbage in…garbage out. ALL your Garmin physiology data might feel right but it will be nonsense as you haven’t used a chest strap. Just sayin’. I base many of my own training decision on HR data and I’ve used chest straps for that purpose for over 10 years – I currently use HRV4Training and a proprietary Training Load tool…just do it properly or don’t do it at all! (Training Peaks is cool too) Buy either a Garmin HRM-TRI/HRM-PRO or a Polar H10.

So, in my case, I became annoyed by using my 945 and sold it for a simpler, second-hand 935 that ‘just worked’ (except the optical HR which is broken 😉 ). I just don’t want any of the smart features on the 945 like maps and music. When I’m not using my 935 for sport, I wear an Apple Watch 6 / SE which is a superior smartwatch to anything Garmin will ever make.

The RIVAL is a ‘just works’ tri watch and it is the sort of sports watch I should be using alongside my Wahoo ROAM/BOLT 2 as I am a typical Wahoo target consumer. However I use STRYD and whilst Stryd power IS supported by Rival, calibrated instant pace from Stryd is not supported (yet) and that is the one single reason why I am not using Rival. Once Stryd Instant Pace works, I’ll use Rival properly for my own triathlon training and racing.

  • If you have a Wahoo bike computer and you don’t use Stryd…which is most of you reading this…then buy the Rival. !
  • If you want complex, expensive tech, music and other features that you won’t use buy the 945.
  • If you want proven tech and have a Garmin Edge then buy a Garmin 935.
  • If you want a small format tri watch buy the Garmin 745 or 945LTE.
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Take Out – Do I get a Rival or not?

To finish up this Wahoo Rival Review, the takeout for me is that it is the type of triathlon watch I’m looking for. That’s one reason why I also like the Vantage V2 as both the V2, Garmin 935 and RIVAL are simply aiming to support proper triathlon training and with some innovative new triathlon sports features thrown in and less of the smart-tech nonsense.

Wahoo’s hand-off feature is a de facto acceptance that a bike computer is best for, errr, the bike. The implication, therefore, is that a triathlon watch should perform better when running and swimming. RIVAL does the swim piece well enough and now even logs running power to keep me happy.

The rrp$379.99 price tag is interesting and, with structured workouts, it becomes compelling.

The bottom line is that existing Wahoo users will seriously consider buying an ELEMNT RIVAL. If you want a capable tri-watch with a simple app set up then Rival fits the bill – especially if you are searching for your first ‘proper’ triathlon watch.

Buy Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL – Review, Price, Availability & Discounts

Status: Shipping Now.

You can now buy the Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL directly from Wahoo or Wiggle. Wahoo’s new product pricing is well controlled and I wouldn’t expect ANY discounting until well into 2021. Rather, I see a greater likelihood of new features improving the value proposition at these price points:

Buy Wahoo ELEMNT RIVAL by selecting the image below or selecting here: link to wahoofitness.com. Thank you for your support!

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48 thoughts on “archive Wahoo RIVAL Review – vs Garmin 945 – ELEMNT GPS Triathlon Watch

    1. jeez what more do you want !!! this is the news of the year – garmin now has another competitor in another key market.
      🙂

      yes. this is it.
      one more minor bike unit to come, Iirc next week. no biggie. then its party time

  1. Hi T5k,

    If you have to choose for a proper triathlon watch now, which one would you prefer between Polar V2, Garmin 745 or Wahoo Rival? I don’t care much about music or notifications…

    1. V2 then Rival then 745.
      – 745 is too small for me (it’s the only one I would not for sure use)
      – Rival needs better stryd support for me
      – V2: Use H10/hrmpro plus stryd for accuracy
      – 935 might be more ‘proper’, 945 might be more expensive

      1. Here in the UK, I think the Fenix 5 Plus should also be considered in this discussion too. It’s around the same price as the new Rival and appears to do everything the rival does, and much more.

        The Rival looks stillborn to me. And honestly, how many people are honestly doing triathlons anyway, so being a ‘triathlon’ watch doesn’t appear to be a compelling use-case for the vast majority. And if you are in the minority who does triathlons, you have better choices.

        1. quite a few people are doing virtual tris right now. I’ll admit that has zero appeal to me.
          even in the UK there are TENS of thousands of people who are considered as triathletes of various degrees of seriousness. IIRC it was 30,000 3 or 4 years ago based on readership figures of , I think, triahlete magazine. it’ll be significantly higher now.
          scale that figure up significantly for the USA alone.

          yes f5+ and 935 are perfectly valid choices. some, including me, have argued that the 935 is better in some respects as a sport-only solution

          s/b: why is the rival not going to sell ?
          if you read dcr’s review then, fair enough, that seems to be erring towards his view. if you read the review on triathle.com it is pretty much in line with what I say. what more do you want the rival to do for triathletes? (don’t say maps or music 😉 )

          1. How about the Forerunner 735 or Polar Vantage M – both are often under £200 here in the UK, and often around £160 both are Multi-Sport / trialthon and seem to be much more capable, even though neither have maps or music.

            DCR’s list of what is missing is quite telling – I just can’t see why you’d choose this when you have so many better options from many other manufacturers previous generations. Why buy something ‘hoping’ it may finally get other missing features, when you can have them now on proven platforms. Missing HR alerts or pace alerts seems to be an amazing ommision, if true and I find training load / status generally very useful, and I’d be surprised if triathletes would not find these metrics useful.

            I’m surprised so many folks consider themselves ‘triathletes’ – I cycle and run a lot, and often dynamically transition from one to another, but I don’t consider myself a duathlete.

          2. well, self-identification and identity politics are a whole new topic for this site. let’s not go there today 😉

            this is all said hopefully in a friendly way to encourage discussion but I’m just about to unhook my bike and speed off somewhere, please excuse my brevity:

            why buy a Garmin 945 when the battery is suspect, less so with the 935? Why buy a Vantage when it hasn’t got that peripheral feature that the v800 has?
            I fully get the death by a thousand cuts argument in relation to features. it’s a correct analogy for why Garmin is king.

            why should a newbie get a Garmin and then find they can’t comprehend the complex user interface? I hope I know Garmin products better than the average person but I still can’t find some features easily . in one of my reviews I pointed out it took 17 key presses to do ‘X’, I forget now what X was. RIVAL is *WAY* easier to use than a 945 for a newbie. (945+AW6 are my current on-wrist watches)

            so we come back to an argument about ‘proper’ core triathlete-features. yes, there is a debate there about what are true core features FOR A TRIATHLETE, as above I am broadly on thee same page as triathlete.C0M
            you mention alerts. yes that is a core feature, I should have specifically highlighted that and have subconsciously bundled into structured workout features (ie it WILL come as the device is alert-capable)

            physiology: I’m not sure that’s a core feature for a watch. yes it is for the platform offering and wahoo has an open platform.
            accuracy: well that’s a core feature that Garmin doesn’t have either. some reviewers find a garmin accurate, some don’t. I don’t. It’s not. Not for accurate pacing of training. surely that is THE core feature that doesn’t exist on ANY watch?

            maps and music are just not core for a triathlete on a watch for swimming and running.
            strava live? hmm. probably not.
            running power. definitely not (as much as I love it)

            which others were you thinking?

            from my perspective, RIVAL would never be my main watch without footpod support. i don’t think it’s too much to ask to know how fast I’m running !

          3. I think running power is a pretty fictional concept – there are several competing running power technologies and none of them offer comparable results, so whatever number you are being given, it’s certainly not watts. Its more like a dynamic realtime relative perceived effort. Funnily enough, that is one of the last things I want or care about, so we obviously are coming from this from a completely different perspective.

            I also think footpod usage is rare, I’m plucking a figure out of thin air, but I’d guess less than 0.01% of runners use them, and probably even fewer triathletes as I guess you’d have so stash it somewhere for the swimming. I always think a footpod is a hard sell when you’ve already spend £xxx on the watch.

            Regarding music – I think you’d sell far more watches with music support, over running power or footpod support. In my view, if I need to take a phone to play music, I don’t need a watch at all, I can just connect my sensors to my phone instead. I think the music use-case is underestimated in a watch. Music really is applicable only to running though, no one should be cycling with headphones on!

          4. ” dynamic realtime relative perceived effort” – yes. i always say it’s a good proxy for effort and never that they measure watts. so I 100% agree there
            yes there are different running power calculations and they ‘measure’ different things…so they all could be right
            obviously, pace up a hill is wrong, and hr up the same hill is lagged, and the hr zone perhaps incorrect if I’ve had caffeine.
            i confidentally reckon 100,000 people use running with power. which sounds a lot but there are WAY more runners than that. https://the5krunner.com/2020/10/28/garmin-strava-2021-runnings-next-big-thing/
            yes I agree footpod usage is low but it will be much higher than 100,000. so maybe higher than 0.01% although it depends on your definition of runner and, as per the previous comments, my definitions of a triathlete !
            i have a vague recollection of once ‘calculating’ 10million global runners…which coincidentally would make your 0.01% figure not too shabby a guess at all.
            absolutely music will and does sell more watches. it’s still not a core running feature IMO. maybe my definition of ‘core’ needs some expansion?
            more people than you think cycle with music and I 100% agree with you that they probably have less time left on this earth than you and I.
            using a smartphone is fine. voice cues aside if you are running with a smartphone all you are doing is logging the metrics. that does have some potential benefits (training load). you could log data with a caching chest strap (h10, hrm-tri) or with a caching footpod like stryd.

            so I think we probably agree 😉

            rain interrupted ride. sun’s out. road’s wet.

  2. Is there no support for the classic footpod? Thats how RUNN is transmitting. I know its a ancient standard, but, come on 😀

    will be interesting to see how Garmin reacts. I like that they are getting some pressure from the market.

    1. i can’t get any footpods to pair as a footpod. stryd only pairs as a PM. i might try the Runn I do have one.

      i think maybe the 745 didn’t sell too well. i think their big money gamble is the VenuSQ, I’ve no real idea on how that is selling.

      the Rival will sell and will eventually sell LOTS. It could cause suunto/Poalr more problems than Garmin.
      however, if there is a REAL 745 coming soon at the proper price point then that could be a problem for Wahoo Rival

      1. i also think the 745 is to close to the 945. I know a lot of people wich want something like a 745 but dont want to shell out that price. I think, Coros really nailed it for the occasional runner/cyclist. Or they get an Apple Watch wich is by far the best day to day watch.

        But I think, Garmin can not just lower the prices. Next generation there has to be a) a version of Topmodells with pretty screens and b) a better menu structure. They have to to both sides: more watch for less money. There is not only “peak Garmin” on the Edge side of the table, but also on the watch side.
        Why pay 600-700€ (and more) for a new Forerunner 955/Fenix7 wich are only incremental steps from their older siblings? I can buy an Apple Watch for day to day use (Apple user all around, but not for fitness) and use the FR945 and Edge 830 for the sports. That would save a lot of money, increase the smart part of wearing a smart watch daily and I will still save money.

        In the last few months, a few exciting thinks appeared already. Lets see if they are capable of extending logging of thinks like sugar, blood pressure to all users.
        Native power support is a must. Support for new sensors like sugar (while exercising) or body core temperature from third market suppliers would be something new.
        They also have to change some things in connect. If you do a structured workout, they only show you one border of a zone you want to hit. When you want to run with a pace between 5:30 and 6:00, in analysis only 6:00 will be marked as target. If you run faster than 5:30, it looks still like you did great on sticking to your workout.
        If I have to use a third party system to visualize such things and track such things, I can switch from Garmin to whatever will also deliver data wich goes into that third party site/software.

        1. the 945 is a have-it-all triathlon watch. the 745 is exactly the same (ish) but a tad smaller.
          of course lots of people want that for less money !
          garmin cannot absolutely just lower the prices as dealers are already stocked up based on higher trade prices and the expectation of higher retail prices with periodic discounts.
          peak garmin, hah! yes I know you’ve read this: https://the5krunner.com/2020/09/27/peak-garmin/ !
          apple watch+ 2xgarmin – yes absolutely. that’s effectively what I would do if this blog didn’t get in the way. not everyone can afford all that kit tho…nor want it.
          blood sugar- i think that is very difficult technically to achieve. if someone can do it I think there are vast rewards waiting from the medical side of it. body temp – as you know there is a CORE product already (I’m trying to get hold of one)
          analysis: yes, more serious sports data analysts are always going to use 3rd party tools

          1. Yes, that version is the sport version of their medical grade system. Trust us, it’s German engineering 😆. I think, non-invasive glucose monitoring will take longer time because as far as I understand, you can’t do it optical/electrical on the skin. The skin barrier is holding glucose back.

            Thanks for the eMail!

  3. DCRainmaker mentioned in his review that he could use any cycling power field in the running profile to display Stryd power? Would sure be cool to have e.g. 1min avg Stryd power.

    1. edit:
      I saw that and I was unable to add cycling power fields to a run profile.
      power should display on a bike profile. (not tested)
      stryd running power IS recorded during a run (not on watch although it is visible occasionally in the app…it DOES export into golden cheetah, TP, etc)
      I’ve already made a tentative request to wahoo for properly handling the stryd pod (and then beefing up the metrics)

      1. Thank you, please keep us posted! Getting distance and pace from the pod would be nice, but power over various averages is personnally what I’m mostly interested on.

        My v800 battery is reaching EOL, the more I read about the Vantage/Grit X the more I see things I would miss, and paradoxally this has most potential to fit me and my geeky tendencies. Wish we had a roadmap so I could decide whether to hold on or still get a GritX on Black Friday…

        1. Hi V2/GritX are full of features and there are no massive gaps in the feature set.
          That said the feature set WILL be expanded
          Because the features are ‘good’ I do not expect there will be any public roadmap
          I asked for one a while back.

          1. By “WILL be expanded” you mean beside this update with power based training targets and zone pointer aka ver 2.0?

          2. at v2 launch FLOW mobile had swim drill screens. those have now been removed.

            so, yes, i’m pretty sure there will be more features. but i have no official intel to share.

  4. It’s good to see Wahoo get in the game, but it’s seems they got in the very end here.

    If they can build off their ecosystem with a product that does everything Garmin does, but better, great. Otherwise they’ll go the way of Tomtom.

    I mean, it’s 2020, running power as a data field should just be there now.

    1. i agree with the running power comment. let’ see what happens in the next month or so. I suspect they were forced to release now because of Christmas…this is REALLY late for a release of a major product. I was expecting Q1.2021. So they’ve released something that works (it does) but just kept out those beta features for a short while longer while the sales roll in.
      end game: yes they have come in late. on the other hand features like seamless training plan sync has only really hit the mainstream this year. so I’d say the basic definitions of what a platform needs to offer are agreed upon and some companies are closer to it than others. wahoo is mostly there in how it delivers the major sporting feature sets.
      it’s quite different to tomtom who just didn’t or couldn’t invest in the product. in a parallel universe, TomTom perhaps might have been the new Garmin had different decisions been made and different resources allocated.

      1. You think that wahoo rival will get for example navigation with uploaded gps track and back to start( breadcrumb ) not polar like style?

        Question about laps: does it have manual and auto laps like polar ( both manual and auto at same time ) or like garmin

        Also I wonder what gps chip rival is using, its big watch and „only” 24h of gps

          1. Thank you for the answer but can rival count auto laps and manual on one session for example

            12km and 12x1km laps auto
            And
            3x4km manual laps

          2. gotcha
            good question
            on the wahoo app it records one set of laps like garmin would. so 1km autolap but if you press lap then it ends the current autolap and starts a new one.
            looking in golden cheetah I’m only seeing one set of laps too, so it’s only recording one set of laps
            so: like garmin , not polar

            IIRC, wahoo DOES record other sets of laps in FIT files with the bike-ELEMNTs (eg for your starred strava segments). so they might one day be persuaded to do what you want (like polar). but that day won’t be soon!

      2. “End game: yes they have come in late. on the other hand features like seamless training plan sync has only really hit the mainstream this year. so I’d say the basic definitions of what a platform needs to offer are agreed upon and some companies are closer to it than others. wahoo is mostly there in how it delivers the major sporting feature sets.”

        Features aside here: Sport Watches as a sector have been booming for the last 5-6 years now. People are imbedded within ecosystems now for ages and that means they’ve built literal portfolios of empiric fitness data within a watch system It’s really hard to dig someone out of a platform simply by price and/or comprable features, not when they already have most of that where they are.

        In the case of Wahoo from that perspective, it might be even harder because nearly all of the products they sell are supported in everyone else’s ecosystem. Why switch to the Rival when all my Wahoo external sensors are paired to my Garmin/Polar/Coros/Suunto device, and are supported. What does switching to the Wahoo watch bring that I don’t already have?

        Unless Wahoo does something drastic like block their sensors from functioning on competitors devices, or marginalizing features on those sensors from now on, I don’t see any reason someone already owning a watch picking this up other than either distaste for what they have currently (I might have been that person when I owned a Garmin watch), or out of sheer brand loyalty, which I doubt is going to be a very large portion of the base.

        Had Wahoo come out with a watch around 2016-17, they’d have a shot, but now? They’ll be lost in the shuffle. Hell, Coros has a bigger imprint putting out a $200 watch that works with all of Wahoo’s devices AND native Stryd Support AND most of the features the Rival has.

        I don’t see this going far.

        1. Wow. After all these years Justin, I finally disagree with you ! A first 😉 (ish)

          Couple of points
          1. You don’t know how many times on a ride you will hear people say their Edge has crashed, you can’t count the number of times people have lost their ride data. OK it’s less common now but literally all the 5 guys I ride with at the weekend have switch to Wahoo. OK I might have been a factor in that 😉 but they are all happy and have turned into evangelists themselves. Only one of them runs/tris tho. Quite a lot of Garmin people just wnat a new home.
          2. The market is still growing with new users coming in. I would imagine triathlon will be in growth mode again next year. Do you go cool or go vanilla for safety?
          3. I agree with the vested data argument but only for those who care about the data (most historical data becomes less relavent when you get fitter but let’s put that away for another day). Those who REALLY care (me) don’t use Garmin Conenct in any case. But not everyone cares about keeping that history back to Day Zero (I certainyl DO care but others dont’, my partner being one). Of the guys I cycle with at the weekend only one likes their data like me and another is fairly keen. the rest don’t really care but do want something on their handlebars to look at #EasySwitch. Even when one of the guy’s wahoo went wrong he was very forgiving for some reason. #BrandLoyalty/Love
          4. Garmin price fatigue is another factor. Economic bubbles burst…always.

          To me just as the relative success of the Coros PAce 2 and Garmin FR935 was obvious then, to me, the success of Rival is obvious (after a couple of tweaks). I just can’t see it (eventually) going any other way. Of course, I could be wrong.

        1. yes i agree. mayeb they want to encourage kickr sales and/or expect buyers to be those already vested in the wahoo ecosyste,. IDK
          but it is a little strange. smart-trainer buyers tend to be well-informed, so not sure the ‘confusing’ marketing will confuse those buyers.

          1. That’s why i did not think only kickr would be supported, just wanted to make sure

            IMHO vv2 or 945 still better choice

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