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Should i get a Stryd for my Vantage V?
#1
Question 
Currently using my Polar Stride Sensor with Vantage V to get more consistent pace and cadence but have extreme problems to get GPS connection. My M430 connect within seconds, but for 2 days i waited for 5 minutes for my Vantage V before giving up and starting my run anyway. Interesting enough, after running it take only 3 minutes for V to find the satellites and put me on track.

One thing I noticed here is that while Polar Stride sensor give both Pafe, cadence and distance even when GPS is disconnected - and from the graph it looks like the Stride sensor is giving these data even with GPS connected - it cant get power. 
Since I run in area of high buildings (25-35 floors!) and sometimes under bridges etc, my GPS connection is always unreliable (Thats the reason for getting Polar SS in the first place so I could have reliable instant pace) I feel that the power from Vantage V would be of limited use - see the fluctuations on the power graph attached compatred with the pace graph and altitude (or is this range of fluctuations normal on even ground, easy pace?).

So, I'm considering if I should invest in a Stryde instead so I can use power for my training. I currently been varying between running freely, or based on HR or pace and had planned to use my winter runs (when ill reduce number of runs and increase strength training) to gather data for starting a power based half marathon program in spring. 

Ultimately ill make the desicion on my own of course, but I need some more input to decide.

   

/Stefan
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#2
In your scenario then it would make sense to get stryd as you dont want a gps track
for others, Polar need to enable pace and speed from a footpod even if gps is on. Polar state that this is not current behaviour.
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#3
Well its not that I don't WANT a GPS track - but I don't need a very precise.

Anyway, I am right not now certain ANYONE (including Polar) knows how foot pods work with vantage V, I have seen your and others replies form Polar, but I have also seen (including on my own mail question to Polar Sweden) that if a foot pod is connected Vantage V will use that for pace and cadence.
I guess we just have to wait until things calm down and we get some definite answers and/or fixes. Even if a foot pod does work, there are currently no way to calibrate it.

I just compared my first run with Vantage V to the one i showed above - that run was without my foot pod (Polar Stride Sensor) and look at the pace! its all over the place just as the power graph. Then compare that to the smooth pace on the graph in my initial post where I did have Stride Sensor connected. Both were in close to similar pace. I am certain that todays run, the Polar Stride Sensor gave the pace and not GPS.

That said, since Vantage V cannot make use of the Polar SS to calculate power - the graph seems quite useless in my scenario and your suggestion that i might be better off switching to Stryd is probably the best. I will give it a couple of days or so and get familiar with teh watch and see what comes out of Polar before ordering. Right now im on a low milage because of a troubling IT-band so running intensity is more regulated by pain. A quite effective regulator...

/Stefan
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#4
(11-09-2018, 09:34 AM)Balcmeg Wrote: Well its not that I don't WANT a GPS track - but I don't need a very precise.

Anyway, I am right not now certain ANYONE (including Polar) knows how foot pods work with vantage V, I have seen your and others replies form Polar, but I have also seen (including on my own mail question to Polar Sweden) that if a foot pod is connected Vantage V will use that for pace and cadence.
I guess we just have to wait until things calm down and we get some definite answers and/or fixes. Even if a foot pod does work, there are currently no way to calibrate it.

I just compared my first run with Vantage V to the one i showed above - that run was without my foot pod (Polar Stride Sensor) and look at the pace! its all over the place just as the power graph. Then compare that to the smooth pace on the graph in my initial post where I did have Stride Sensor connected. Both were in close to similar pace. I am certain that todays run, the Polar Stride Sensor gave the pace and not GPS.

That said, since Vantage V cannot make use of the Polar SS to calculate power - the graph seems quite useless in my scenario and your suggestion that i might be better off switching to Stryd is probably the best. I will give it a couple of days or so and get familiar with teh watch and see what comes out of Polar before ordering. Right now im on a low milage because of a troubling IT-band so running intensity is more regulated by pain. A quite effective regulator...

/Stefan

precise track: yes me neither but  I do want STRYD pace.
yep. in terms of the smoothness i see the same thing in flow...but is it the same on the watch?
stryd ARE looking at this and will take up whatever needs taking up with Polar
my source of the stated behaviour from Polar is NOT SUPPORT...it is one of the product managers (who also checked). So I have to say they are right, as they probably are!!
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#5
(11-10-2018, 10:32 PM)the5krunner Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 09:34 AM)Balcmeg Wrote: Well its not that I don't WANT a GPS track - but I don't need a very precise.

Anyway, I am right not now certain ANYONE (including Polar) knows how foot pods work with vantage V, I have seen your and others replies form Polar, but I have also seen (including on my own mail question to Polar Sweden) that if a foot pod is connected Vantage V will use that for pace and cadence.
I guess we just have to wait until things calm down and we get some definite answers and/or fixes. Even if a foot pod does work, there are currently no way to calibrate it.

I just compared my first run with Vantage V to the one i showed above - that run was without my foot pod (Polar Stride Sensor) and look at the pace! its all over the place just as the power graph. Then compare that to the smooth pace on the graph in my initial post where I did have Stride Sensor connected. Both were in close to similar pace. I am certain that todays run, the Polar Stride Sensor gave the pace and not GPS.

That said, since Vantage V cannot make use of the Polar SS to calculate power - the graph seems quite useless in my scenario and your suggestion that i might be better off switching to Stryd is probably the best. I will give it a couple of days or so and get familiar with teh watch and see what comes out of Polar before ordering. Right now im on a low milage because of a troubling IT-band so running intensity is more regulated by pain. A quite effective regulator...

/Stefan

precise track: yes me neither but  I do want STRYD pace.
yep. in terms of the smoothness i see the same thing in flow...but is it the same on the watch?
stryd ARE looking at this and will take up whatever needs taking up with Polar
my source of the stated behaviour from Polar is NOT SUPPORT...it is one of the product managers (who also checked). So I have to say they are right, as they probably are!!

Yep, didn't mean to make it sound as If i had a beter source which I'm sure I don't, The new support in Sweden i been in touch with is also new at the post since a few months only.
However, I cant shake a feeling that the current fot pod status is not what Polar want, but that they need more time to figure out how  to reliably use ANY foot pod to provide pace/distance for their own power calculations while not destroying the data for Stryd/RunScribePlus users.

That said, and I do not remember if you have covered this in your reviews - Did you notice any difference in Running Index when you run with Stryd compared to no Stryd, or with Muscular load?

I will stay with Polar SS for now, but keep reading the discussions and first of all see if Stryd will come up with any Black Friday deals. The design is quite a bit better than Polars *Egg*, but I do like the battery life of PSS, even if Stryd is wireless rechargeable.
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#6
OK, so todays run definitely showed that distance is not Vantage Vs strong point at the moment. 


I went out for a short 30 minutes run this morning and when I came back the watch showed 4.17k, it felt like a hard run but the instant pace showed around 7.2 the whole time - since i have some issues at the moment i thought it was my mind playing games and just ran by feeling.

After loading my run to flow/strava and synched data form my Milestone pods that i use for backup the pods showed 4.67k - more in line with how my run felt. I opened strava and used the too there to recalculate distance and strava got it to 4.7k - the V showed around 500k shorter than the actual distance thats about 10% off! I also checked to 600m measured tracks id been marking as laps along the run and they as well were about 5-10% shorter than actual length. These I measured to within 1-2 percent before when running with M400 and M430 and calibrated Polar SS.

I did have my Polar SS paired to Vantage v at this run, and ran under 2 bridges where it lost GPS track to some degree which might be the reason - My old watches didnt however fail here. Guess ill try later with no Stride Sensor as well since i do doubt that Vantage V uses it correctly.

That said - I finally have a question - about Stryd - that I might have misinterpreted before.

I always thought that Stryd as a device to pace/distance would be just like an advanced footpod - like a accelerometer on the shoe that give cadence data for the watch to interpret. But now Im starting to think I been totally wrong about this. Please correct me here, but is it so that Stryd provide the Vantage v (or v800) with actual numbers for pace and distance and not only raw accelerometer data?
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#7
(11-12-2018, 05:55 AM)Balcmeg Wrote: (...)
I always thought that Stryd as a device to pace/distance would be just like an advanced footpod - like a accelerometer on the shoe that give cadence data for the watch to interpret. But now Im starting to think I been totally wrong about this. Please correct me here, but is it so that Stryd provide the Vantage v (or v800) with actual numbers for pace and distance and not only raw accelerometer data?
The Vantages will only display the raw data when GPS is off. Unfortunately, there’s no way yet to have GPS to populate the map and get raw data for speed&distance like on a say 935, or, to my knowledge, the V800. Problem with GPS+pod is that unless there’s an option to disable it (like with 935), GPS will keep auto-calibrating, this interpreting the data, making it as useless as GPS derived instant pace.
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#8
I have been using a VV in conjunction with Stryd. Among a couple of outdoor runs with GPS enabled, Running Index was only shown twice post workout. Of course, each individual workout formally qualified for Running Index computation in terms of speed, duration and pausing. For indoor treadmill runs I have never seen a Running Index. TBH, I have no idea why it occasionally works and why not.

The same is true for speed source. The GPS track is sometimes REALLY bad but the pace post workout seems quite in line and stable. I really have the impression that the VV takes the pace from a connected Stryd pod.

It's a shame that Polar is not totally clear about how things work. I am afraid, they even don't know by themselves what's going on. In fact, it's a total mess.

Christian
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#9
I've been pretty happy with using Stryd and the V.

Total distance lines up nicely with simultaneously worn 935 which is also connected to Stryd.

I have always gotten RI with all my runs (using standard "running" profile).

Still, Polar really needs to implement more fleshed-out support for footpods, similar to what the V800 has.

If I'm using a footpod, I want there to be no doubt where the watch is getting Pace and Distance from.
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#10
While I use an M, I'm pretty sure the software is the same in both watches. The M applies auto-calibration to the Stryd's data that cannot be switched off. My last couple runs the M would always show a much faster instant pace than my 935 where I have auto-calibration off and Stryd at 100.0. Today I finally had the time to hit the track at work, and ran 10 laps with both the 935 and the M. The 935 + 100% Stryd came out at 3904m (resulting in my calibrating it to 102.5%), while the Vantage lapped 4300m (an inaccuracy of close to 7%, and a difference of about 9.5% to the 935, which is in line with recent runs where the M would roughly track 1k more than the 935 over the course of 10k!). Now, both watches suffer from really bad tracking, but at least I can set the 935 to only get distance/speed from Stryd, while at the same have GPS on to populate the map in GCM, and TP. With the Vantage I'm stuck with whatever factor it applies to the Stryd's data derived from bad GPS.

Here's the track btw: Yes, I ran all 10 laps in lane 1 approx. 30cm from the inside rail. Not what the Vantage saw though...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i5og4p4dd95qsr...k.JPG?dl=0
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