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the5krunner Vantage V review
#1
When can we expect the Polar Vantage V review? (EDIT: short review now published here and full review expected in november 2018)

I think it could be a good starting point for discussions. And I am damn curious of 5K´s take on the Training load and Recovery Pro bit. And to eventually sort out some of the Stryd/pod drama together in this forum.
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#2
(11-02-2018, 02:46 PM)Fred Wrote: When can we expect the Polar Vantage V review? 

I think it could be a good starting point for discussions. And I am damn curious of 5K´s take on the Training load and Recovery Pro bit. And to eventually sort out some of the Stryd/pod drama together in this forum.

you can rest assured that the 'STRYD pod drama' (great phrase!!) is TOTALLY shared by me..I will do all i can to have it work how we all know we want it to work..but I am only me and I have very little sway at Polar. You need to shout HERE, there (you know where I mean ;-) )and everywhere if you want something changing by the big boys.

the Vantage is sneakily better in many little respects. there will be a detailed reivew but it will be of both devices and there are some details (eg no audio on the M) that I want to double check to make sure what i produce is right. also i want to make sure with the gps and ohr accuracy piece that i am fair to the M&V...i have done LOTS and LOTS of runs/rides/miles but much of it was in beta, so that is why there is a delay (the review is already written)

i will probably add a summary review of the V but (like the M summary that is already out) I know it wont address the questions that some (but not all) people have.


my take on the TL (V&M) and recovery (V) is that it's generally pretty cool. I don't especially like some of the terminology and some of the data presentations (others do) but the MEAT that's behind it seems to be similar to what I already do BUT BETTER and IN ONE PLACE.

was there anything you had in mind with TL/RP?
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#3
What are the odds of them taking the guts of the V800, and stuffing them in to the Vantage casing using the Vantage display?

That would be the watch I 'd want, with proper power zone support of course.

To me it is unfathomable that Polar would remove the excellent footpod support that the V800 had, especially while simultaneously employing an inferior GPS chips. Don't they have any actual RUNNERS weighing in on these decisions?
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#4
(11-02-2018, 03:40 PM)tx911 Wrote: What are the odds of them taking the guts of the V800, and stuffing them in to the Vantage casing using the Vantage display?

That would be the watch I 'd want, with proper power zone support of course.

To me it is unfathomable that Polar would remove the excellent footpod support that the V800 had, especially while simultaneously employing an inferior GPS chips. Don't they have any actual RUNNERS weighing in on these decisions?

1. Odds - zero
2. yep a refreshed v800 even without ohr would have been good for me. but marketing calls and the needs of a potentially wider market calls....gotta have the better screen...#more juice...gotta have ohr...#more juice...#save juice with Sony....yes they must have real runners inputting 

the whole offering (including FLOW) and how its put together..is freaking cool....for REAL runners. there are a few little bits here and there that need adding power zones, bike plans, power bike/run plans. but all the scheduling and workout creation and TL and and and and and...its generally really good.
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#5
Quote:the5krunner

my take on the TL (V&M) and recovery (V) is that it's generally pretty cool. I don't especially like some of the terminology and some of the data presentations (others do) but the MEAT that's behind it seems to be similar to what I already do BUT BETTER and IN ONE PLACE. 

was there anything you had in mind with TL/RP?


Good to hear! I have read the manual and all the Polar support pages regarding TL/RP. Ok, and the original research papers on session-RPE, HRV for monitoring fatigue in athletes and some on power (I love pubmed). Polar had their hand in the pot in some of these studies.

What I would like to know is how well you think the orthostatic tests, long term RPE and muscle load values correlates with your feelings as an athlete? 

Does it give you any actionable insights...do you agree with the daily recovery assessment and when TL to chronic TL ratio goes over or under 0.8 - 1.3 do you feel it is "right" to either back off or increase intensity/frequency?

For me as a geeky health-tech guy and amature exerciser I am in no position to judge if it is right or wrong assessments. I often get to enthusiastic (weekend warrioritis) or bored and watch 110 episodes of some scifi anime instead of working out. So for my type I guess a working TL/RP and motivational system could be pretty beneficial, no?
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#6
(11-02-2018, 06:11 PM)Fred Wrote:
Quote:the5krunner

my take on the TL (V&M) and recovery (V) is that it's generally pretty cool. I don't especially like some of the terminology and some of the data presentations (others do) but the MEAT that's behind it seems to be similar to what I already do BUT BETTER and IN ONE PLACE. 

was there anything you had in mind with TL/RP?


Good to hear! I have read the manual and all the Polar support pages regarding TL/RP. Ok, and the original research papers on session-RPE, HRV for monitoring fatigue in athletes and some on power (I love pubmed). Polar had their hand in the pot in some of these studies.

What I would like to know is how well you think the orthostatic tests, long term RPE and muscle load values correlates with your feelings as an athlete? 

Does it give you any actionable insights...do you agree with the daily recovery assessment and when TL to chronic TL ratio goes over or under 0.8 - 1.3 do you feel it is "right" to either back off or increase intensity/frequency?

For me as a geeky health-tech guy and amature exerciser I am in no position to judge if it is right or wrong assessments. I often get to enthusiastic (weekend warrioritis) or bored and watch 110 episodes of some scifi anime instead of working out. So for my type I guess a working TL/RP and motivational system could be pretty beneficial, no?

ok some great questions.

first up: some of my polar data might be 'corrupted' in the sense that there are duplicates there sometimes for oh1/v/m - so I'm not sure what impact that will have. plus i haven't logged all my sessions with polar over the last couple of months.

I've used TRIMP for a Loooong time. I used to triangulate it with waking HRV as trimp by itself was good but not good enough.   It looks like Polar have slightly improved standard trimp.

TL ratio goes over or under 0.8 - 1.3 - can't comment on that.

the orthostatic tests, long-term RPE and muscle load values correlates with your feelings as an athlete? - tentatively seems good (RPE by definition correlates ;-) )

beneficial: yes this stuff is clearly beneficial if you are training >=4 times a week. the more you train the more you need to watch your readiness. the more you do anaerobic the more you need to watch your readiness

I don't think this stuff will sway many people but actually, it might be one reason why I partially switch to polar next year (if they sort out footpods grrr). because a: I intend to up my training a bit. b: it just seems better than what I currently do although 3: not sure I can be bothered to do the orthostatic test most morning (i did them every morning for years...been there, done that...moved on)
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#7
Just ran a phased run with the Vantage V and Stryd.

Found out upon returning that the watch interpreted the run as a "strength training" exercise, in spite of the fact that it was put in to Flow as a phased run with pace targets.

This watch has been for me an epic failure in most respects.

5k, have you tried building a phased run with pace targets on the Vantage V with success?
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#8
Cool, thank you for answering. I am also making the switch, returned my 935 and can now choose another watch from the same place and it will definitely be the Vantage V. Oh, and I have the Oura ring that I incredibly won online. Hmm, what was the name of that site again ;) (thanx again, loving it for sleep and recovery and the stealth has a stunning space gun metal gray finish). 

I had a Polar HR-watch in 1994 when I was a teenager and loved running with it. They have such a strong history in endurance sports physiology compared to...any other company I can think of in this realm. While Garmin is spotifying, instagram-shoting and making the Fenix series into a true Swiss knife (some good tools, some mediocre and a really bad wine opener ;) Polar kind of stays the course. I like that.

I hope my store gets it by the end of the coming week. Then I will be able to give my take on it eventually (but 28 days needed to build the chronic "tolerance" load to compare the acute load ,"strain", with and get a ratio). 

Exciting times!
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#9
(11-03-2018, 03:17 AM)tx911 Wrote: Just ran a phased run with the Vantage V and Stryd.

Found out upon returning that the watch interpreted the run as a "strength training" exercise, in spite of the fact that it was put in to Flow as a phased run with pace targets.

This watch has been for me an epic failure in most respects.

5k, have you tried building a phased run with pace targets on the Vantage V with success?

double check you have created the planned training with the sport defined as RUNNING in FLOW and that you choose the correct sport/workout when you start the workout. it should be alright? I've not done pace targets but i have done hr targets with predefined phase times and undefined pace times - so what you are doing s/be ok. i'm just testing something similar in a few minutes which someone else reported (vibrate countdown on M and pace stability with stryd....which makes me thing stryd IS being chosen as source of pace.)
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#10
(11-03-2018, 02:22 PM)the5krunner Wrote:
(11-03-2018, 03:17 AM)tx911 Wrote: Just ran a phased run with the Vantage V and Stryd.

Found out upon returning that the watch interpreted the run as a "strength training" exercise, in spite of the fact that it was put in to Flow as a phased run with pace targets.

This watch has been for me an epic failure in most respects.

5k, have you tried building a phased run with pace targets on the Vantage V with success?

double check you have created the planned training with the sport defined as RUNNING in FLOW and that you choose the correct sport/workout when you start the workout. it should be alright? I've not done pace targets but i have done hr targets with predefined phase times and undefined pace times - so what you are doing s/be ok. i'm just testing something similar in a few minutes which someone else reported (vibrate countdown on M and pace stability with stryd....which makes me thing stryd IS being chosen as source of pace.)

I believe what likely happened is that I swiped the touch screen to "Strength Training" once I entered the phased training plan, but before I actually started the workout (which disables the touch).

This is something to be careful about, because I ended up losing my power info and GPS track.
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