Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Swimming distances, pace and HR problems.
#1
Polar Vantage M (red)
I bought this watch as upgrade from polar m400. I do triathlon, and  m400 missing some functions I need. I needed something which help me with counting my swimming sessions in the pool mostly.

I tested it for running, together with m400 watch with HR strap. Difference in HR from wrist and belt were sometimes up to 20 heart beats. Even when watch was really tight on wrist.
Difference  between average automatic lap pace were also up to 25 sec. I'm using automatic lap pace because is more reliable then current pace.

First session swimming in pool, i realize its not counting lap well. 
for example 100 m interval in 20m swimming pool was completely inaccurate.
after 100 m watch showed me 40m. every time something different.
Another session on 25m pool wasn't  better, I tried different push from wall, same thing, once it show me to shorter distance, once to long. always did 100 or 200m intervals.

Today training was completely disaster, i run with my friend 10k, i had polar m400 and vantage M on my  hand. He used polar v800. After training polar m400 and v800 showed 10 k, but vantage m
had only 8.7 km.there was a problem with current HR , vantage M reacted on change in hr with up to 30s delays.
I checked training file and looks like first 1.3 km distance was not traced, even when track  on the map shows that i run through that distance.

In all 4 session vantage M failed.

This watch only pretend to be sport watch.
How you can hold your HR zones when difference is up to 20 heart beats sometimes
Same thing with average lap pace and current pace difference event to 30 s per km
So training with a speed zones is impossible.
Swimming in pool  same thing, distances are incorrect. 
PC polar flow app, dont detect watch, even when  polar m400 is sync without problem
Vantage M can by sync only by android app.
When you check your session summary on M400 you can check automatic laps times, for every single km, Vantage M showing that laps are recorded but you can't check times.
Im really dissapointed.
Reply
#2
There are some issues, know by Polar. The working on a fix. Here's a thread to this topic: https://the5krunner.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=21
Reply
#3
Watch test after update:

200m or 100m blocks mostly front crawl on 20m pool.
First 200m warm-up traced accurately.
but swimming phases are split on 20m, 40m or 60m phases it looks like that:
1. 20m freestyle 16s, rest time  12s, 12 strokes/pool
2. 20m freestyle 22s, 18 strokes/pool
3. 60m breaststroke  1:28. rest time 30s , 10 strokes/pool avg
4. 20m Freestyle 25s
5. 40m breaststroke  1:01, 12 strokes/pool

I swam without stoping. so that that statistic confusing me.

I started to use manual lap timer and distance.
In most laps distance was accurate, but when i switched to backstroke with new lap after 100m traced distance was 0
I tried again front crawl 200m and 100m was accurate.
another 2 tries with backstroke, this time distance was traced, but incorrect 80m instead 120, and 80 instead 100.
Then another try with front crawl 140m instead 100.

Is V800 any better for swimming? 
Vantage M don't recognize styles well, I don't understand swimming phases  showing my rest time when i swam constantly, stroke rate not matching at all. Usually have 17/19 per pool length statistic shows from 10-12.

Any advises for pushing from walls? Maybe i do something wrong.
Reply
#4
(12-15-2018, 02:42 PM)crb Wrote: Watch test after update:

200m or 100m blocks mostly front crawl on 20m pool.
First 200m warm-up traced accurately.
but swimming phases are split on 20m, 40m or 60m phases it looks like that:
1. 20m freestyle 16s, rest time  12s, 12 strokes/pool
2. 20m freestyle 22s, 18 strokes/pool
3. 60m breaststroke  1:28. rest time 30s , 10 strokes/pool avg
4. 20m Freestyle 25s
5. 40m breaststroke  1:01, 12 strokes/pool

I swam without stoping. so that that statistic confusing me.

I started to use manual lap timer and distance.
In most laps distance was accurate, but when i switched to backstroke with new lap after 100m traced distance was 0
I tried again front crawl 200m and 100m was accurate.
another 2 tries with backstroke, this time distance was traced, but incorrect 80m instead 120, and 80 instead 100.
Then another try with front crawl 140m instead 100.

Is V800 any better for swimming? 
Vantage M don't recognize styles well, I don't understand swimming phases  showing my rest time when i swam constantly, stroke rate not matching at all. Usually have 17/19 per pool length statistic shows from 10-12.

Any advises for pushing from walls? Maybe i do something wrong.



I've had three indoor pool swims with the new firmware. It works, though the data in strava and training peaks only shows total distance and total elapsed time. At least that is correct. I swim in a 50m pool and get good stroke recognition and distance accuracy.

Don't switch strokes during a length, and make sure to push off the wall hard, and you should have no issues. My vantage works way better for pool swimming than my wife's fenix 3, and my tomtom multisport. 
Reply
#5
New swimming session today, this time much better. I restarted watch before session.
1. 200m freestyle -ok (1 min rest) new lap
2. 200m freestyle -ok (1 min rest) new lap
3. 100m breaststroke -ok (1min rest) new lap

First time  swimming phases recognized  very well as 200m or 100m blocks, stroke close to real one, but then.

4. 100m backstroke watch shows 80  (1min rest) new lap
5. 200m freestyle, counted as 160.
 
Swimming phases divided by 20, 40 or 60 m blocks.

Looks like watch get crazy after changing style for backstroke, and even with 1 min break and starting new laps, watch starting to loose some lengths on freestyle.

I pushed really hard from the wall, and if it comes to freestyle and breaststroke im very satisfied with that reading. But backstroke recognition is worth to investigate. 
I can avoid backstroke if that will not mess up with distance readings.
Reply
#6
I give up. 
New swimming session today.
1000m  total distance.
900m freestyle. (4x200, 1x100)
100m breastroke.

Watch counted 920m. Lost 80m
Swimming phases in total mess.
Summary shows i swam 580 m breaststroke, 340 freestyle.

Is it so hard to recognize freestyle hand move from breaststroke?
In my opinion i swam in  similar way to last session which was probably accidentally accurate.

When freestyle show about 20 strokes per pool length
Every block recognized as breaststroke have from 9-12 strokes per pool length.

Have no idea how i supposed to swim to have good reading. I can get same result using lap timer and count distance manually  on my old M400 without spending 270e for watch which pretend to be sport watch.
Reply
#7
Another few swimming sessions.
I'm swimming only freestyle. Watch loosing about 80m per 1km

I noticed that pool length is usually  counted before i push off the wall.

All times watch recognize some lengths as breaststroke. And usually loosing lengths during that wrong recognition's.

Last session: 1 km freestyle recognized as 720m freestyle, 220 breaststroke.
Previous :     1.6 km freestyle recognized as 1020 freestyle , 480  breaststroke.

I don't know what determine that watch thinks I'm swimming breaststroke.
I can't figure out why that rest times show up in phases, gliding is not allowed? how long i can glide?

For example first 200m  recognized as phases:
20 m freestyle (here watch lost first 20m)
100 m breaststroke
20m freestyle
40m breaststroke

Some people says that distance tracking is correct, for me nearly 10% from 1km is a lot.
I still have to relay more on stopwatch than distance reading.
Reply
#8
Another test when running.
OHR have about 15-20 s delay comparing to M400 with chest strap.
At steady pace on flat surface Vantage M is off about 1-2 Heartbeat so it not bad.

But when 400 m hills started . M400 increased HR straight away.
Vantage M reacted 20 s later.  
I pushed really hard to the top of the hill. M400 got highest reading exactly at top hill 168. Then on flat section HR start to drop straight away.
Vantage M reach highest  HR 167,  50 m from top of the hill about 15 s later then M400.

Sprint on 110m Hill.
M400 Max HR 171 Exactly at top off the hill.
Vantage M reach max HR 25s after reaching top of the hill when i was running down the hill.

Looks like OHR only works well only on steady pace. Its not for people who are doing intervals, and relay on accurate HR readings.
Chest belt is essential for that accurate and immediately readings.

I thought that during exercise OHR is updated more often.

On daily use OHR needs about 30 s, when you stand still, to match that i measure manually from the same wrist I wearing watch.
And very often readings are about 3-5 bits off to comparing real one.
Reply
#9
(01-11-2019, 10:40 AM)crb Wrote: Another test when running.
OHR have about 15-20 s delay comparing to M400 with chest strap.
At steady pace on flat surface Vantage M is off about 1-2 Heartbeat so it not bad.

But when 400 m hills started . M400 increased HR straight away.
Vantage M reacted 20 s later.  
I pushed really hard to the top of the hill. M400 got highest reading exactly at top hill 168. Then on flat section HR start to drop straight away.
Vantage M reach highest  HR 167,  50 m from top of the hill about 15 s later then M400.

Sprint on 110m Hill.
M400 Max HR 171 Exactly at top off the hill.
Vantage M reach max HR 25s after reaching top of the hill when i was running down the hill.

Looks like OHR only works well only on steady pace. Its not for people who are doing intervals, and relay on accurate HR readings.
Chest belt is essential for that accurate and immediately readings.

I thought that during exercise OHR is updated more often.

On daily use OHR needs about 30 s, when you stand still, to match that i measure manually from the same wrist I wearing watch.
And very often readings are about 3-5 bits off to comparing real one.

hi
these are how the tech works on you
I did this big piece of how it works on me. https://the5krunner.com/2018/11/06/polar...-accuracy/
no doubt someone else will get different readings to us both.
Reply
#10
(01-12-2019, 10:17 AM)the5krunner Wrote:
(01-11-2019, 10:40 AM)crb Wrote: Another test when running.
OHR have about 15-20 s delay comparing to M400 with chest strap.
At steady pace on flat surface Vantage M is off about 1-2 Heartbeat so it not bad.

But when 400 m hills started . M400 increased HR straight away.
Vantage M reacted 20 s later.  
I pushed really hard to the top of the hill. M400 got highest reading exactly at top hill 168. Then on flat section HR start to drop straight away.
Vantage M reach highest  HR 167,  50 m from top of the hill about 15 s later then M400.

Sprint on 110m Hill.
M400 Max HR 171 Exactly at top off the hill.
Vantage M reach max HR 25s after reaching top of the hill when i was running down the hill.

Looks like OHR only works well only on steady pace. Its not for people who are doing intervals, and relay on accurate HR readings.
Chest belt is essential for that accurate and immediately readings.

I thought that during exercise OHR is updated more often.

On daily use OHR needs about 30 s, when you stand still, to match that i measure manually from the same wrist I wearing watch.
And very often readings are about 3-5 bits off to comparing real one.

hi
these are how the tech works on you
I did this big piece of how it works on me. https://the5krunner.com/2018/11/06/polar...-accuracy/
no doubt someone else will get different readings to us both.

Good stuff with all data you have gathered. 
I'm really serious when it comes to workout in zones HR or speed. Most training plans base on that.

If vantage would be my first watch, i would be please with watch.
But I still have my old M400 and have chance to compare them on the same workouts.
Unfortunately This is a watch for people who don't care about accuracy. 
At the end of the training distance is right, Average speed is right. But live readings are way off.
Purpose to having sport watch is to react on that whats happens during session. 

I really loved using Endomondo +chest belt. Audio feedback was nice thing to have. 
I invested in watch to have a instant access to HR readings or pace during workouts.

After today Parkrun when Vantage was all the time off with everything, I had worst HR readings since i had watch. Maybe because was bit colder than usually. 

I decided to invest in V800 as a upgrade from my M400. 
I wish to stay longer with M400 but because I'm more in Triathlon now V800 seems to be right choice for me.

Only thing i will miss from vantage is how comfortable it was on hand.
If chest strap would be included in a box that would be a different story then you may have a choice 100% Hr accuracy or OHR 30s ghost accuracy.

But then V800 offers Orthostatic test and a lot different functions which Vantage M don't have.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)